8 Nov 2011

Rules Query: Abyssal Staff

Shroud Of Despair: To Wound rolls from the abyssal Staff's shooting attacks are made against the target leadership rather than Toughness. The abyssal staff's shooting attack has no effect on vehicles. (pg. 29, Codex: Necrons)

The question is whether this works against fearless or if Imperial Guards gets to use their HQ leadership within twelve inches or if orks in mobs use their modified Ld.
And, since it is To Wound, do you use the highest leadership or the leadership that is in majority like normal To Wound?



  1. My first thought is that the generals ld or fearless dose not come know handy in this situation. i think that this will be treated as you would do when there are different T i one unit.
    so extra rules are of no importensure. the basic Ld is to be used

  2. My thoughts exactly, the biggest question is that of the Ork special rule.

    Mob Rule! Ork mobs may always substitue the number of Orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the Fearless special rul. (pg. 31, Codex: Orks)

    Since all models leadership is changed you would use the modified leadership, not that of the standard Ork. So basically all Ork mobs of ten models or more are effectively Ld 10.

  3. If you use orks modified leadership when they are 7,8,9 or 10 wouldn't it be tha same as if an IG unit has a Commissar as a leader?

    Or do you mean that since all the orks in the same unit get a higher leadership they can use there modified leadership and in an IG unit it's only the Commissar that has a higher leadership they can't use it.

    In that case can't even the leadership from a Veteran/Sergeant count?

  4. Not the same since all models get the same leadership. Commissars and sergeants don't do that.
    And since it's not a leadership but a To Wound test I don't see why a sergeant should be any benefit for the unit.

  5. I'm with Kristian on this. If you look at the to wound rule, you take the majorityr of the units T. so in this case the sergiant or alike is no use. /N

  6. I mailed GW and asked the question, hope for a quick answer.
    At the same time I asked if instant death is comparing strength vs toughness or against leadership

  7. It is not a leadership test, it is a To Wound test. All you do is you exchange one number for another. You are looking to hard at the word "leadership" here.

  8. Search the web and you will see a ton of people that asked the some question, so its not just me!
    You might have the correct answer and frankly I believe so to, but it doesn't cost me more then 2 minutes to send an email.
    And since 3/4 thought you should compare the S against Ld I didn't thought it was a bad idea.

  9. Well, yes. You are supposed to compare Strength to Leadership, that's the whole point. You substitute the Toughness with Leadership, but it isn't a Leadership test but a To Wound test. If you read the rule again you will see that it clearly states that. Hence it follow all the rules for To Wound. The only difference is it uses another number.

    I'm not against you sending questions to GW, quite the contrary. They, if any, should know the answer and if in doubt it only takes no more than 2 minutes to send. But if you read the rule again then you'll see there's no ambiguity here at all.

    But then again, this will be in the Necron FAQ since you are right about people on the intrawebz being confused by this rule. So if I'm wrong I'll buy you a coffee and a cinnamon flavoured doughnut!